There Will Never Be A Turbo Subaru BRZ

"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
08/09/2016 at 11:30 • Filed to: None

A recent !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! with Todd Hill, Subaru’s Car Line Planning Manager of America, revealed that there are, and never will be, any plans to build a factory turbo version of the BRZ. Despite a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! that I played, a boosted BRZ is not in our future.

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My very first article on RFD was about why I think !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Subaru seems to agree with me. The thing is, many people disagree. Most auto journalists feel the FR-S/ BRZ/86 is massively underpowered. Most auto journalists also aren’t happy unless they have at least 400hp to smoke the tires for awesome photo shoots. But they do influence public opinion, and many would-be customers are also underwhelmed by the relative lack of horsepower. According to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , Subaru sold just 353 BRZs in the entire US last month. 353! The only comparable months are the past two winters, when a rear wheel drive sports car with summer tires isn’t exactly a hot seller in the snow belt.

I’m sure it’s no coincidence that the drop in sales happened at the same time the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! was revealed at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in June. People who want a BRZ are holding out for the new one, with new styling, new features, and an available $1,195 performance package with improved brakes, wheels, and suspension. Notice what isn’t improved – power. OK, that’s not entirely true – there’s a whopping 5hp and 5lb/ft of torque increase. Time will tell if this is an improvement you can actually feel, and if they’ve managed to tune out the dreaded midrange torque dip.

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That’s a fair statement. The BRZ has always been about handling rather than horsepower. Sure, the Mustangs and Camaros will blast by me on the straightaways, but once we get into the corners, I’ll hang with them. The current versions of both actually handle rather well. They’re bigger and heavier than the BRZ, but unlike previous incarnations of the pony cars, they don’t trip over their own feet like my dumb old cat the minute they get to a corner. I was extremely impressed with the handling of the EcoBoost Mustang I drove as !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! last year, even with performance tires designed strictly for pavement taken way out of their element on gravel roads. That control is what enabled me to keep the car on the gravel and out of the trees.

I think Todd Hill and Subaru are missing that point. Power and handling are not mutually exclusive. You can have both. I haven’t driven the latest Camaro (keep your scanners peeled for Will Byrd’s review of the convertible he recently had), but I’ve heard reports that it handles even better than the Mustang – and the Mustang is quite good. What kind of opposite world are we living in these days, talking about turbocharged pony cars that go around corners well?

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But that’s the world we live in, and people expect better than 205hp from the BRZ. It’s an adequate amount of power – I still stand by that statement. But sports cars aren’t supposed to be merely adequate. They’re supposed to be better than the average car. My wife’s !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! will absolutely trounce me in a drag race while taking her kids to sportsball practice. Not really – street racing is bad, m’kay? – but hypothetically she could, with a Miata’s horsepower above and beyond my BRZ’s. You don’t look cool getting smoked by a mommymobile.

The other major objection Subaru raises about forced induction is with the packaging.

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This is partly true. The motor sits extremely low in the BRZ’s engine bay, right about at my knee level. That’s partly why the BRZ’s center of gravity is among the lowest of any car out there today, on par with some supercars costing several times as much. As a result, the motor sits too low for the tried and true turbo system from the WRX to fit in this car.

But a turbo isn’t the only way to achieve boost. This is a BRZ with an aftermarket supercharger I saw at an !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! meet. The blower sits where the air box used to be. It’s like that space was designed for a supercharger. While turbo lag has become a thing of the past in many modern applications, I’ve always liked the instant boost of a supercharger – no lines, no waiting. You may not get quite as much power out of a supercharger as you would out of a big turbo, but the BRZ is light enough that a little power goes a long way. Most people who want more power don’t necessarily want much more, and 250hp would be easy to achieve within the engine’s design limits. Consider that the WRX already makes 268hp. Aftermarket upgrades have already proven that the BRZ can handle more power.

I disagree that it would change the car too much. The stock suspension and brakes are excellent. Sure, there’s always room for improvement. But I doubt the average BRZ driver has taken their car to 110mph on the track like I have. With nothing more than upgraded wheels, street tires, and brake pads, the car handled beautifully – and kept up with the more powerful cars in the turns. Why not enable it to keep up with them on the straightaways as well? Thanks to its lighter weight, a 250hp BRZ should be able to hang with a 275hp turbo-4 Camaro or a 310hp Mustang EcoBoost – maybe even a 335hp V6 Camaro. It doesn’t have to beat them in a drag race, because the BRZ is all about the corners, and that’s where it would gain its overall advantage over the pony-cars-turned-genuine-sports-cars, if only it could stay with them on the straightaways.

Maybe that’s why BRZ sales have tanked over the last couple of years. Pretty much everyone who wants one, in its current form, already has one. A more powerful version would sell many more cars not only to all those people who have been complaining about the lack of power all along, but many current owners who want the upgrade. Sure, it would also tank the resale value on my 2014 BRZ, but at least it would be cheaper for people to turn “old” BRZs into dedicated track cars. The BRZ may have enough power for me, but I also think Subaru should give the people what they want.

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DISCUSSION (39)

Conan > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 11:35

I actually think I’d rather have a supercharged BRZ. Twin charged would be awesomer.

My bird IS the word > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 11:39

which proves that the japanese still don’t understand the american market.

Tripper > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 11:52

My best friend had a brz with the supercharger you mentioned (jackson racing I think). It was a vast improvement over stock, the only thing that took away from the car was that the suspension was so hard that it was pretty terrible to drive anywhere but autox/track.

To your point, I wouldn’t buy a BRZ and add a supercharger, but I might buy one if Subaru sold it that way.

Chariotoflove > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 11:54

Justin, I haven’t driven a BRZ, and I probably won’t bother, but not because of the power. I happen to believe 200 hp is fine. But, the BRZ just doesn’t look all that nice to me. The styling isn’t horrendous, and the interior is okay, but that’s it. I find the front end unattractive, and the rest of the car looks like “generic sports coupe”. Call me shallow, but performance without style that makes me want to look back every time I leave it just isn’t enough.

JGrabowMSt > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 11:56

Ive been in a 450WHP FR-S. Its absurd, a complete riot, but also deathly terrifying all at the same time. The trans will eat itself before the rear explodes, but the U-joints do not inspire confidence in me. I would want to change a lot about the car I was in before I dare consider it capable of handling that kind of power. For the sake of saving people, Im okay with the factory cars never getting major power.

Justin Hughes > Tripper
08/09/2016 at 11:56

Exactly my point. And I agree with you about the suspension - great on the track or a smooth on-ramp, but too harsh for crappy Boston area back roads.

Justin Hughes > Chariotoflove
08/09/2016 at 11:58

Fine by me. I actually find the nose of the FR-S more attractive than the BRZ, but I actually got a better deal on the “more expensive” BRZ at the time. Also, World Rally Blue is the fastest color.

But yeah, you don’t have to like it. There are plenty of other awesome sports cars out there.

Justin Hughes > JGrabowMSt
08/09/2016 at 12:01

More than double the power would take some serious upgrades elsewhere as well. But a more mild power increase should be OK.

Tripper > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:03

He was on coil overs and all of that jazz as it was primarily his auto x car. I think I could tolerate the stock suspension, but I’m in the Philly area so road quality is about the same.

WiscoProud > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:05

I agree. I think 250hp from a centrifugal supercharger would be about perfect for the Brz. That being said, you don’t seem to hear people clamoring to Mazda about putting more power into the Miata, and that seems to be the main competitor.

Chariotoflove > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:06

Subaru’s blue is awesome though. Not enough companies make a decent blue like that.

Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:13

Subaru and Toyota must have some sort of noncompete agreement when it comes to adding power because I don’t see why TRD hasnt indepedently developed a supercharger as a dealer add on.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:20

the nose of the FR-S more attractive than the BRZ

Damn straight. Enjoy your mustache ride. lol

JGrabowMSt > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:21

I have a coworker with a completely stock BRZ. I think theyre very good just how they are. Maybe a tune, but no physical power adders are needed.

Justin Hughes > WiscoProud
08/09/2016 at 12:27

I, and most of the world, agree with you about the Miata, but the manufacturers don’t see it that way for some reason.

Justin Hughes > Chariotoflove
08/09/2016 at 12:28

Definitely! I like Ford’s Kona Blue, too.

Justin Hughes > Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed
08/09/2016 at 12:29

Kinja'd!!!

TRD and STi would both win from that.

Justin Hughes > JGrabowMSt
08/09/2016 at 12:30

A tune to fix the torque dip, and better tires than the stock Prius tires. That’s all I need - and, not coincidentally, all I have, as far as performance stuff on the street at least.

Chariotoflove > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:30

Oh Man, that blue on a Mustang is what’s making me consider one. When the sun hits it, I get kinda weak.

Justin Hughes > Chariotoflove
08/09/2016 at 12:31

Mustang, Focus, Fiesta - they all look good in Kona Blue.

WiscoProud > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:32

The Miata was based to be a reliable british roadster, of which the defining traits were low weight and moderate power. In that regard, it nailed it. But the british roadster of the 50-70s doesn't exist anymore. Keep the low weight, but try to shoot for 10-11lbs/hp

JGrabowMSt > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:33

I would keep the Prius tires honestly.

Arrivederci > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:36

I need to get my car dynoed again - from internet benchracing, I should be over 200whp now and the car feels great. Power-wise, it should’ve come this way from the factory. Nicely quick in a straight line, engine doesn’t feel as coarse and the great chassis dynamics are unchanged.

Racin'Jason001 > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:40

I fear there will never be, a good discussion for Oppositewonk though! http://oppositelock.kinja.com/welcome-to-opp…

Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:50

Subaru, Toyota, dealerships, the consumers; it’s a classic win-win-win-win situation. We all win!

Chasaboo > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:50

You don’t understand cars, you don’t understand the Japanese, and you damn sure don’t understand the BRZ.

gawdzillla > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:52

should have made this too

Kinja'd!!!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 12:55

I’ve often wondered why they can’t bump displacement up a bit, maybe to 2.2L. It would add torque and power across the board. Tune it slightly more aggressively, maybe 105 HP/L, which shouldn’t be pushing it too hard (Honda’s AP1 S2000 was 120 HP/L) and you’d wind up with about 230HP, but more torque across the board.

Vicente Esteve > JGrabowMSt
08/09/2016 at 12:58

Prius tires rear, Michelin Pilot Supersports front.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 13:00

Your last paragraph is getting at the heart of it. People who want it, have it. People who want more, aren’t buying it. And either way, it’s about 4/5 years down the line, so it’s probably time for a revamp anyways.

It doesn’t need astronomical power, I think it needs to run with a GTI and other hot hatches in a straight line, which considering the two cars power and weight, I don’t know why it doesn’t(gearing?) but the Google tells me it’s about a full second slower to 60. And yes, a turbo hatch is a bit different than a RWD sports car, but they cost the same and are aimed at the same buyers, and whatever the GTI gives up for being fwd it is more practical, the DSG is a nicer auto, and it is certainly upscale.

Justin Hughes > Vicente Esteve
08/09/2016 at 13:37

That is EXACTLY how I plan to set my car up when I try drifting!

Justin Hughes > Snuze: Needs another Swede
08/09/2016 at 13:42

That would also work. My ex’s ‘96 Impreza L had a great (EJ) 2.2, so there’s definitely a precedent for that displacement in Subarus.

Justin Hughes > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle
08/09/2016 at 13:43

The GTI is on my short list of BRZ replacements for the reasons you said, along with the WRX and Focus ST.

Vicente Esteve > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 13:51

I am extremely intrigued by the BRZ since it wasn’t for sale in Mexico until just December of 2015. I want to drive one so bad.

Shankems > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 14:06

When your car looks faster than it is, you’re gonna have a bad time. In addition, I don’t believe superb chassis dynamics sell cars. If it did, the new Camaro would be wiping the floor with the Mustang. It ain’t.

misfitmascots > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 14:33

I understand not wanting to add weight and cost, but there should be more than one engine choice. Todd may also want to pick up a car magazine, the Camaro and Mustang can do more than go in a straight line. We won’t even mention the ZL1, Z28, and GT350.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 14:36

Thats what originally gave me the idea, the old EJs. I’m not sure how much you can overbore the new FA engines, though, but someone does make a stroker kit that pushes it to 2.1L and bumps it up to about 212HP.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Justin Hughes
08/09/2016 at 17:46

I’m guessing most younger performance oriented buyers are thinking the same way. Torque steer is becoming less of a problem on fwd vehicles, and I don’t have much to back it up but I suspect as time goes by less and less people want a toy and a practical car; they want one car to do it all.

Justin Hughes > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle
08/09/2016 at 19:35

I just took my first spirited drive in the Focus ST I’m reviewing. Torque steer is there, but minor, and far less than my old Saturns that had literally half the horsepower.